The Jacksonville Fire and Rescue Department has been the center of more controversy than it would like to admit in the last year. At the helm of the department is Chief Ray Alfred, who has had his own fair share of controversy surrounding his appointment by Mayor John Delaney in 1995 and issues concerning his qualifications. Daily Record staff writer Glenn Tschimpke sat down with Alfred for a general update on the fire department and the direction it’s moving.
Question: Are you worried about morale in the fire department after three African-American lieutenants were controversially promoted to captain?
Answer: You always worry about that. I think, eventually, things will settle down. This is something that, obviously, was here when I came back in the early 1990s. I can’t say more than the administration looked at it. You heard what the mayor said. When you look at the numbers, there was concern that we’re going to lose this and the City decided to settle it. It’s something that the general counsel and the mayor decided. They certainly had to look to me for management of whatever they decided on. That’s the role I play. But it has been done. The City has decided and that’s the way it is. It’s my understanding that perhaps the union or some person within the union is trying to address it in the courts. What the judge says and what the reaction is to that, who knows? We are a resilient bunch and yes, some folks are angry, but at some point we all have to settle down and get about the business of protecting the community. Looking back before I got here, I guess the same question could have been posed when the court stepped in and said hire one for one. The questions were raised then. We’ve gotten beyond that and we’ll get beyond this.
Q: People have questioned your qualification as the fire chief, radio talk show host Andy Johnson most persistently.
A: It’s easy to sit back and take pot shots. Andy Johnson does not know me or my history. I’ll leave it at that. If he’s ever interested enough, I’ll tell him where I’ve been and if he thinks that I’m not qualified, then let him be the judge of that. I know where I am and what I’ve been through. What he says, as far as I’m concerned, is rhetoric. I started this profession in 1963. I’ve been in it for 36 years. I’d be a fool not to learn something. They didn’t just put me in those positions [pointing to a plaque of his previous ranks and positions]. I earned those and Andy Johnson and nobody else can take that away.
Q Looking at the Florida statute, depending on how you interpret it, it allows for an administrative fire chief who does not need certification.
A: I can be whatever the mayor wants me to be. I’m prepared, with experience and everything else, to be that.
Q: But you can’t make command decisions on the scene of an emergency?
A: Sure I can. I think I have enough experience to do that.
Q: Personally you do. But the way the law is written, can you make command decisions on the scene of an emergency?
A: Certainly. If I pull up to a building and I see a bad decision that make take some fire fighters’ lives, I’ll make those decisions. But our structure is such that we have a good command structure. I’ve got some very capable commanders. I’ve got an $87 million corporation to run. It’s more than putting the wet stuff on the red stuff. I’ve got personnel issues. It’s managing people. It’s managing a budget. It’s making sure that those folks out there have all the resources necessary.
Q: What is the status of building new fire stations in Jacksonville?
A: Considering the increase in population and development and the conditions of the [existing] stations themselves, we wanted [consultant] TriData to come in before we even attacked the problem to address the issue of more stations or less stations and where they should be. They came out with their study with two approaches: a slow growth rate and a high growth rate with recommendations on both. If [Jacksonville] has slow growth, then we only need like a half dozen new stations. If the growth rate is high, then we probably need about 11.
Obviously, all of it is predicated on revenues. We set out with what we thought was a five-year plan. Certainly, since [Sept. 11] and the shortfall of revenues in the state, it has had an impact on the City’s revenues by eight to 10 million dollars. So those things that I had hoped and the mayor had hoped to improve upon, the rate at which we repair and build new stations, the City is having to take a look at that. We’ll see where we end up.
As we look at those stations that need to be replaced, then the question to ask is, ‘Is it in the right place?’ Should it be in this location if we’re going to replace it? Or should we look at population shift and density and all of that, perhaps we need to move it half a mile or several blocks to some other site, which will better cover the area and the anticipated growth.
Q: What are some critical stations?
A: There’s a station at Moncrief and Dinsmore, which is perhaps the worst in terms of its condition. I hope shortly to begin breaking ground off U.S. 1 diagonally across from where it is. That’s probably our worst station. There are some others. Station 47, which is around the prison farm — that one is scheduled to be replaced in this year’s budget. The rest of them, there are other issues. Some stations are still owned by volunteers. Do we put money into those stations? Should we buy them from the volunteers? We’re going through that exercise now.
Q: What is the general condition of your fire fighting equipment?
A: I think we’re in pretty good shape. We have to stay on schedule. A couple of years ago, we looked at the condition of our fire apparatus. Some of it, we had some vintage 1973 stuff out there. We went to the administration and pointed out what we needed if we were going to continue to deliver service as we should. Then we needed to keep pace with our apparatus. This city, like most major cities that are involved in emergency medical services, we’ve done a good job of doing fire codes and building codes and public fire safety education, but we’re running a heck of a lot more medical calls for everything: heart attacks, strokes, seizures, stomach aches, headaches. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 65 to 70 percent of what we do here in terms of our responses is medical in nature. It has nothing to do with fires. That’s true of most large communities across this country.
Q: Does the fire department receive a lot of frivolous calls? Has it been a problem?
A: We still have, what we consider, sometimes an abuse of our fire system. We’re running calls where people have had headaches for two or three days. They have a fever or they’re just sick and not feeling well. Every now and then, we have an, ‘I have an appointment with my doctor’ kind of a run. We have to remind them that this is an emergency medical service kind of a system. It’s not for doctor’s appointments. One of the things we have to keep in mind as professionals is that when people are sick, they’re sick. They don’t know if it’s major or minor or life threatening or not life threatening. So they call us. They know that we respond and we respond as quickly as we can.
Q: Do you receive a lot of malpractice-type claims.
A: We get, I guess, our fair share of lawsuits. People think that because we didn’t transport or because we didn’t assess accurately that perhaps the condition worsened because of that.
Q: How are you on staffing levels?
A: We are fine. We’re at about 1,100 people. About 1,000, perhaps, are uniformed personnel. A lot of fire departments like ours have adopted a deferred retirement option plan. We’re going to lose to retirement about 240 people beginning in 2004. So we’re trying to make sure our resource of people are there so we have enough people on board.
There are some issues that are coming up — some OSHA standards that we’re going to have to look at in terms of whether or not we are currently satisfying those standards. There are some standards out there to suggest that if we have a house fire, we should not go in to do proactive, aggressive fire fighting unless we have people outside waiting to rescue folks. It’s a policy called two in, two out. Before you can send two people in the house to start battling the flame, you have to have two people outside waiting just in case they get in trouble.
That doesn’t mean that we can’t direct co-streams from the outside. It also does not mean that if people are trapped inside, we can’t go in and attempt to rescue them.
The National Fire Protection Association has come out with another staffing issue that says that every truck should be staffed with so many people. We’re going to have to take a look at that. It’s a recommended standard, but probably in 85 to 90 percent of the fire departments in this country, about 90 percent are volunteers.
Q: How are things going with the fire inspections division?
A: We think that, with some exceptions obviously — I can’t condone people not being on the job — they’re doing what they’re supposed to do. By and large, I think we weren’t as bad as it seemed. People were out there doing their jobs. Unfortunately in 1986, when some of these folks came on the job, they were instructed by their supervisors to operate one way and that’s what they were doing. That’s no excuse. You’re scheduled to work for eight hours. If you finish your inspections, find something else to do. Obviously, we don’t want people running around doing personal things. We are now trying to upgrade and provide technology, which we’ve never had before. A lot of the management of records was done manually. We have some 45 file cabinets downstairs with cards of buildings we’ve inspected. I would assume that they’ve been here well before 1995. So now we are going back through and trying to establish a good system — a better system to do the inspections and to keep track of those. We’re now beginning to computerize our files. We haven’t completed that. Now we know where our employees are. They check their files out in the morning and they have to check them back in. We’re now about to equip them with laptops that will enable them to go out and do their inspections, input the data and come back and upload them to the main server. So it’s going well. I’m pleased with the pace. We’ve got new people in there — folks that are energetic and want to be there.
Q: What’s in your future?
A: I don’t know. Certainly, I serve at the pleasure of the mayor. I thought that I’d come here for four years and the mayor would probably choose not to run again. But he did and I find myself here now six years. I don’t know. I’ve been in this business for 36 years. If I’m asked to help, I’ll help in whatever way I can if I’m here as the chief or if I’m not here as the chief.