from staff
Frances Bartlett Kinne is a Jacksonville first. She was the first woman to serve as a dean of a fine arts college in the United States, at Jacksonville University; the first woman to serve as president of a Florida university when she took the post at JU; the first woman to join the Rotary Club of Jacksonville and the first to serve as its president, among other distinctions.
Kinne is an Iowa native and graduate of Drake University with degrees in music education and a doctorate from the University of Frankfurt in Germany.
While married to the late U.S. Army Col. Harry Kinne, she lived in China, Japan and Germany and has traveled worldwide. She prefers not to disclose her age, instead focusing on her experiences. She met with the Daily Record editorial staff on Friday at her home.
We have a mayor’s race coming up, but back in the 1970s, and 1980s, word was you could have been elected as the first woman to serve as mayor of Jacksonville.
That’s very complimentary, and I’m very appreciative of that. I was asked if I would consider running for mayor. Now I’m embarrassed at my reaction, because my answer was a laugh. I said, ‘You’re not ... ‘ and I just laughed. And they said, ‘No, we would like you to run.’ And I said, ‘I don’t think I’d make a very good mayor.’ And they said, ‘Well, we think you’d make a great mayor.’ And I said, ‘Well, I’ve got so many interests now that I don’t think it’s the thing to do.’ And I really don’t think I would have made a good mayor. So there it is.
Obviously, people did think that you would be a good mayor.
Well, I’m flattered by that. That’s very gracious, and very nice. I love leadership things, and I’ve been doing leadership things since I was really very young. But there are so many other interests that I have as well. I love this city, I really do. I love everything about it. I think many times Jacksonville hasn’t been given credit for what it has, or what it is, or what it does.
One of the concerns I’ve always had was that we change every year, our aim, our goal. I think we need to stick to what we believe in and what we are.
I think the Chamber has done a marvelous job here, I really do, year after year. I would like to see goals that would extend over more than one year.
This city is mature enough now to do this. I think at the beginning, it wasn’t, as a consolidated city. I feel that I can be objective about this. I don’t think it’s subjective, because I’ve lived so many different places, in so many different countries. I think this city has more than any city in which I’ve ever lived, including four different countries. I feel that a great potential has been reached - not THE potential, not the eventual potential. It’s a great city, and I want everybody to work together.
How long have you been in Jacksonville?
Fifty-one and a half years. We came in 1958. (Husband Harry Kinne) was the senior advisor to the Florida National Guard. We lived in St. Augustine. See, I’d never applied for a job here. None of my jobs.
We’d been here maybe a month or two, and there was an article in the paper about my husband. And then they just mentioned casually that I had just received my doctorate. And so (the president of JU) called, and said, ‘We’ve lost a humanities professor. Could you come and help us?’ And I turned to my husband and I said, ‘Do you think I could do that?’ He said, ‘Tell them you’ll help them out for ...” I don’t remember if it was three months, or two months, maybe it was weeks. And he said, ‘Tell them you’ll do that.’ Well, that little Volkswagen became very famous, no air conditioning or anything. So there I was, leaving there every morning at 6:20, and I did it, and I kept doing it, and then they kept saying, will you continue?
My older brother was living then, and he was my only sibling. And I was always moving to California. That was what we were going to do, so I could be near my brother.
No matter what anybody asked me, they’d say would you do this? and I’d say, ‘No, we’re moving to California.’ And so that got to be sort of a slogan in the family.
Then after the first year, they said, ‘Would you do it another year?’ and then it got to be about sixteen years as dean. In the meantime, my brother had died, and so that incentive wasn’t quite as strong.
In the meantime, the chair of the board, at that time was Luke Sadler, and I remember Luke and Bert Thomas, who was on our board, came to me, and they said, ‘Would you be willing to be president?’ And I said, ‘No way!’
There weren’t any women in top administrative positions at that time. But then, they did make me president.
My mother always said, ‘You know why they made you president.’ And I said, ‘No, why?’ And she said, ‘Well, you know what, when you’ve got a bunch of men together, they’re going to be disagreeing among themselves, so give it to Fran.’
You’ve been the first woman in so many leadership positions, but that wasn’t your goal. It just happened.
It was never my goal, but I love to tease people. They’d say, ‘How do you like it?’ Well, I wasn’t going to say I didn’t like it. I’d say, ’That’s about the ratio I like.’ When I became president of the Rotary, I had the pleasure of having eight women join that one year. And I’m proud of that.
Why do you think you were always sought out to be the first?
When I started school, I was a year younger than everybody in my class. I started playing (piano) when I was 2 and I was doing programs when I was 5. I could play by ear, so people would ask me to do things. I played by ear before I learned how to read music. But then, I was fortunate, because I had great parents that were right on top of all that.
What did your parents do?
My father was editor of this weekly small town newspaper, and my mother was the librarian. They both had been teachers. My mother was a librarian for 43 years, and they’ve now named this beautiful new library after her. My mother was the first woman on the board of education there, and she was the first woman in a lot of things.
But I never really thought about that, and she never thought about them.
After my father began to lose his eyesight, my uncle took over the paper. But the whole family worked. Everybody worked in the paper, worked in the newspaper office. From the time I was about 5, they let me insert. I grew up in the business.
You continued working, as well.
My first year in college, I was just 16. And it was the Depression. The height of the Depression. It was interesting because in the middle west, where we were, in a small town, everybody was the same. There was no difference. Nobody had anything. The farmers had plenty of food, because they were raising food, but everybody had to work. Children worked, everyone worked. And I have never regretted growing up in that challenge.
I remember in college, they had an old piano in the music building, and they wanted to get rid of it. So I went to the manager of the Student Union, and I said, ‘You don’t have any music during the time the students are eating. Wouldn’t you like some music?’ And he said, ‘Well, sure, if we had a piano,’ and I said, ‘Could I get my meals here if I played the piano?’ He said, ‘Fine, if you can get a piano.’ So I was only 16 and very naive, but I’d gotten acquainted with the janitor and the maids and everything, and so they said, ‘We’ll move it for you.’
So they moved the piano to the common [room]. I played the piano. I couldn’t afford to buy music, but that didn’t make any difference, because I played by ear, and I still laugh about it. And so I had plenty of food then. I was probably healthier then than I ever was.
You’ve been working with students ...
All my life. And do you know, this week alone, I have mentored five through difficult challenges. Not all JU graduates. In fact, two of them are not JU. But all of them had problems. I love to do it.
You maintain a positive attitude.
There are two things that I’m moving on constantly, and one is, keep learning. The other is positive thinking. And you know that’s my big thing. You have no idea what a smile does. It’s like dominoes, how that affects somebody else, and that somebody else affects somebody else. You can change a whole day for a hundred people by one smile. But it’s not just that. It’s your attitude, it’s the way you address things, it’s the way you accept challenges, it’s positive thinking. A smile is only one tiny little thing about it, but it’s a symbol.
You’ve known a lot of famous people. Jack Benny, Bob Hope, people you brought to JU. There’s a long list of people who you know, and who know you, including former President Ford. . .
And there is his letter (in a cabinet) that I received four days after he died. It may be the last letter that he wrote. But one of the reasons that I would think it was important for celebrities to come here, I’ve felt that what they could do for the students, the students could do for them. And I wouldn’t take anybody who wouldn’t stay at least three days.
Aaron Copland, one of the top composers of the last century, got to be a good friend. He got to be a good friend because I went backstage. He was directing the London Symphony in Daytona. He had a long line, and I waited until sort of the end. And then I said, ‘Would you ever think about visiting a university that’s not a big university, it’s not a name university, but it’s a great university?’ And he said, ‘What’s that?’ and I told him, and he said, ‘You’ve got an orchestra?’ I said ‘Yes, and we have a great city orchestra.’ ‘Oh, well, OK. Would you like my telephone number?’ So I added that personal number, which I never quit using.
He was here three times. He met with the kids, and I had him doing all sorts of things. And he taught a class.
He’d really fallen for my mother. My mother died at 100, and she was a musician. She was visiting at that time, that first time. They really hit it off.
How did you make the acquaintance of a Bob Hope, a Jack Benny? How did you do that?
I was an Army hostess during World War II, and that’s where I got to know a lot of celebrities. And then when I was on the National Council on the Arts with Gregory Peck, that was the first time I saw Charlton Heston.
You have a lot of well-known students.
All over. They’re all over. And each one of them can carry a message, and each one can make a difference. I had one who said to me, ‘I get so discouraged, I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere,’ and I said to him, ‘Well, do you think you’ve changed the life of one person?’ And he said, ‘Oh, of course,’ and I said, ‘That’s all you need to worry about.’
I’ve had 16,000 students. I’d say there are probably four or five hundred that still keep [in] close touch.
How do you have time to stay in touch?
I don’t, and I don’t want to miss out on one bit. At Christmas time, I think I get more than 1,500 Christmas cards. But I don’t send Christmas cards because I’m afraid I’ll leave somebody out.
What I really appreciate is when they call me and say, ‘We just had a baby.’
(Former JU basketball star) Artis Gilmore was so cute, because Artis calls me Mom, or Dr. Mom. He’s a grandfather now, and he’s so proud. And he called me right away and told me.
You know so many people in Jacksonville as well. So many leaders, so many decisionmakers. You probably have a more expansive view of what has happened and what is happening in this city than anybody else.
Well, if you live long enough, I guess you can do that.
And you pay attention.
That’s one of my favorite points. I say, if you meet somebody, focus. Because I do. When I was president of JU, I knew the name of every one of the 3,000 students. Anybody can do that. It’s focus.
You remain very active in the areas you enjoy.
Oh! Meetings. You know, one time I was on 43 boards. I do not want to be on a board unless I’m a member that’s there. And it’s not that now. I’ve had to cut it down. Besides, there are a lot of people out there that are capable. They don’t really need me. But if it’s a situation where I feel somebody does need me, then I’m eager to help as much as I can.
Do a lot of people seek you out for your opinion?
Yes. The telephone never quits.
You’re always busy. How do you find the time?
You can find the time. But I need more time, I really do need more time. And as you get older, time gets short. Everybody said, ‘Well, why don’t you go traveling, or why don’t you ... ?’ You know, I’ve traveled everywhere. I’ve seen everything. I’ve lived every place. To me, it’s just wonderful being in Jacksonville,
Do you have any insights on the public school system, K-12?
One thing I’m very, very concerned about, and of course, having grown up in a library, you’d understand how I feel about this, is the literacy. Or the illiteracy. We have to do something about this. We really have to. I’m not an expert. My father’s people came from Josiah Bartlett, who signed the Declaration of Independence. But my mother’s people were immigrants from Norway. The Chicago fire brought contractors from everywhere to help rebuild the city, and my grandfather came from Norway.
Consequently, that’s how that family came to this country. They were rabid about learning English. My grandmother died when I was 15, but I remember her saying to me that this was the most beautiful language, but her children were to forget their language. I don’t approve of that, either. I think it’s very important that you retain that, because languages are so important.
But people who are going to live here must learn the language. My pet peeve is if you want it in English, press 1. That’s my pet peeve, having grown up in a library. I just feel that a lot of our problems right now are stemming from this. But that’s ‘Philosophy 101,’ I guess.
Is there anybody you cannot pick up the phone and call?
I’m not afraid of calling anybody. When I was trying to think of a different person that I thought would be helpful for the students to know, when they were living, well, Jimmy Stewart and Fred Astaire, because the students saw some of the old movies that had been in their classes. Bob (Hope) gave me their personal numbers. And so I called Jimmy Stewart, and he answered the phone. I told him what I wanted, but he was having some health problems. This wasn’t too long before he died.
But Fred Astaire, I called him, and he answered, of course. It was for graduation. And I said, ‘Would you be willing?’ and I told him, and he had heard of me, because he knew Artis Gilmore. So I said, ‘Would you be willing to come and speak at graduation?’ And he said, ‘I’d be glad to.’ He said ‘Bob called me and said you were going to call. What is the date?’ And so I gave him the date, and he said, ‘Oh, could you change the date?’ I said, ‘Well, no, that’s published a year or two ahead of time.’ He said, ‘The University of Nebraska is giving me an honorary doctorate on that very day. I am so sorry.’
Charlton Heston visited, too.
I was so thrilled when we gave him the honorary doctorate, and he was standing on the stage, and he had that black gown on, and of course, everybody thinks of him as Moses, anyway, and so he raised his hands and did the farewell speech from ‘The Tempest.’ It was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever heard. I was scared to death, because the gym was full. It was absolutely packed. All the students had come to it.
But I was scared to death, because I hoped, I’d prayed, that they’d react the way I wanted them too. There was dead silence for just a few seconds after he did this, and then they went wild. They stomped their feet. They whistled. I thought, ‘I should live so long to hear all the students on the campus doing this, for Shakespeare.’