Rick Mullaney is the general counsel for the City. He was appointed by Mayor John Delaney and supervises an office of 35 attorneys that handles every legal aspect that arises concerning consolidated Jacksonville. Before being named general counsel, Mullaney served as Delaney’s chief of staff from 1996-97. Mullaney met with Daily Record staff Mike Sharkey Wednesday to talk about everything from his job to outside interests to who will win this week’s U.S. Open.
Question: The mayoral list is growing and there are some big names on it. Occasionally, someone will mention your name. Why do they mention your name and would you consider running?
Answer: I’m not making any plans to run for mayor and I actually think people are a little bit unfair to the current candidates because everyone wants another John Delaney. John has grown into this job and, quite frankly, he’s one of this state’s and this country’s best mayors. But I think people are underestimating this group. There are a lot of good people. Mike Weinstein is very experienced, very knowledgeable and has a tremendous background in finance. John Peyton is very affable, he’s a great listener and he’s very smart. I think Alberta [Hipps] and Ginger [Soud] have tremendous roots here in Jacksonville and both have served as president of City Council. And, [Council president] Matt Carlucci and [Sheriff] Nat Glover, who may get in, those two in particular are about as fine an individual as you’d ever want to meet. Matt Carlucci is honest, decent and hard working. The more you get to know Matt, the more you like him. If you know Nat Glover, the same is true about him. I think you have some good people and I think Jacksonville is going to be well-served.
Q: Tell me a little about yourself and how you ended up in the General Counsel’s Office.
A: I came to Jacksonville in 1960. My dad was in the military, spent 22 years in the Navy. When he got out, he went to the University of Florida and taught public high school here for 20 years, taught American History at Forrest High School. I went to Bishop Kenny for a year and a half and I went to Forrest where I graduated. I went to the University of Florida for undergraduate school and the University of Florida Law School. I tell a little story sometimes when introducing the mayor. Almost 30 years ago I was in high school on the Westside and John Delaney was at Terry Parker in Arlington. I tease, what do two average looking Irish guys do that like to talk a lot? And the answer is: join the debate team. John joined at Parker and I joined at Forrest. They have tournaments in debate and I tell people if you aren’t familiar with high school debate, it’s just like high school football, baseball and basketball without the crowds, cheerleaders or anybody who cares. We went to a tournament and John’s first tournament was my first tournament. You had all the high schools send their teams and as the luck of the draw would have it, we drew each other and that’s how we met.
Q: Who was the better debater then?
A: That’s not fair. It’s unfair to judge. My team won, but my partner also went to Harvard on a scholarship. John always teases that, yes, Rick won, but the untold story is I had a pretty good partner.
Q: Who’s the better debater today?
A: I defer to our mayor. I tell you what’s been really nice. We have now been working together 21 years in the public sector, 10 years at the State Attorney’s Office and 11 years with the City. I think one of the things that we both have enjoyed most is taking a look at public policy, taking a look at the possibilities and taking a look at how you can shape and mold these things for the benefit of the community for the future. That’s certainly one of the things I’ve enjoyed most about being chief of staff and general counsel — working on public policy and initiatives in which you can transform a city and shape the future of the city.
Q: Why did you switch from chief of staff to General Counsel?
A: John and I have been friends for such a long time that informally I’ve always tried to be a help to the administration. After he was elected mayor, I swore I wouldn’t be chief of staff. Then he asked, and so I did it. Fred Franklin, who was the first African-American general counsel in the history of the city, left to go to Holland & Knight. It just seemed like the right time and the right move. It’s interesting, I never thought I’d be a prosecutor. I never planned on being chief of staff and I never planned on being general counsel. But I’ve been very fortunate to serve on all three for over 20 years and I’ve enjoyed all three very much.
Q: Is that a long tenure, regardless who’s mayor?
A: This is actually the second-longest tenure in the history of consolidated government. In fact, from 1991-97 we’ve had four general counsels. So the timing was good to provide some continuity. What’s been interesting for me as general counsel is that I get to wear three hats. The chief legal officer hat is the hat most people get to see. That’s the one which we provide legal services to all entities of consolidated government, binding legal opinions and, on occasion, we get a little bit of attention like with the school bus contract issue. The hats that people don’t see as much is the manager hat in which you are responsible for a 35-lawyer public office and running it. The third hat, the one I’ve enjoyed very much, is the public policy hat and that depends on your relationship with the elected officials. With Alberta Hipps, for example, I worked very closely with her on technology initiatives. With [Supervisor of Elections] John Stafford, I’ve worked on election reform issues. With the mayor, I’ve worked on a host of public policy issues from the Better Jacksonville Plan to the Preservation Project to the creation of the JEDC [Jacksonville Economic Development Commission] to intensive care neighborhoods to an ethics reform package.
Q; Do you find yourself doing more political work or legal work as general counsel?
A: I don’t consider it political work, although I do like public policy work. Inherent in the office, fundamentally, is the chief legal officer and your fundamental responsibility is to provide legal services. My sole client is not the mayor. Obviously, we’ve done extensive work with the [City] Council, the school district, with the JEA, seven independent authorities, five constitutional officers, executive and legislative branches, over 30 boards and commissions. So the answer to the question is, fundamentally, it’s legal services. But because of my relationship with many elected officials, I’m more than happy, if they are interested, to help shape and work on public policy issues. And I do that to the extent they want me to participate. That participation has been pretty extensive with the mayor and I’ve enjoyed it very much. It’s also been pretty extensive with some Council members if they seek my advice and counsel on public policy issues beyond just the legal issues. What’s interesting, challenging and difficult is that in the public sector, often the problem-solving issues you are addressing involve legal, political, economic and public policy aspects all wrapped into one. So it’s very helpful to sit down at the table and look at it from all angles and, quite frankly, sometimes our problems are very complex. On the litigation side, in private practice for example, sometimes the issue is simply about money — how much are you going to pay or how much can you keep from paying? In the public side, it’s more than just money, although there is a money component. There may be a political ramification. There may be a racial issue. There may be an overriding public policy issue. Those are all things that have to be factored into litigation and decisions that are made on the public side. Advising public policy clients, it’s more than just dollars and cents. There’s a public policy component and there’s a consequence for the community. That’s both the challenge of the job and the fun of it.
Q: Why law in the first place?
A: I’ve always wanted to be a lawyer. I didn’t even know how far back it went until my kids were pointing out in my yearbook one day that these kids in high school were saying, ‘Good luck in law school.’ I guess I always knew I wanted to go to law school and be a lawyer. I didn’t know I wanted to be a prosecutor and I didn’t know I wanted to work on behalf of the city. I felt, even back then, that a law degree and becoming a lawyer created opportunities and possibilities. And, it did. I would encourage my children and other people to do that simply because the practice of law is very broad. It can be anything from private practice to a prosecutors office to the public sector to in-house to even non-practicing areas.
Q: Has your entire legal career been in the public sector?
A: No. When I first came out of law school, I joined the law firm of Carlton Fields out of Tampa. They were a 100-lawyer firm back then. They are about a 200-lawyer firm now. A very outstanding firm. They were the largest law firm in Florida when I joined them. I was in their litigation department and I had clerked for them the summer before. That experience was actually very good for me from a learning standpoint. Also, in helping me become general counsel. I have tried to model some of the things I’ve done in the General Counsel’s Office after my experience with that law firm and after the State Attorney’s Office. This is a 35-lawyer shop, that was a 100-lawyer shop. But a lot of their practices and policies, I’ve tried to incorporate into the General Counsel’s Office.
Q: Has the lure of private practice and its income potential piqued your interest the last 20 years?
A: My wife has mentioned it. I’ve been very fortunate over the last 21 years to have had great opportunities privately. There have been different junctures when there have been great opportunities. But, not only do I have no regrets, I think I’ve been incredibly fortunate in how things have played out. Back in 1986, I still remember Ed Austin calling me, John Delaney and [now Judge] Brad Stetson into this office to promote the three of us. John Delaney became the youngest chief assistant state attorney in the history of the State Attorney’s Office and he made me a director at that time. Back in the mid-1980s, there was a chemistry among the lawyers — me, John Delaney, Audrey Moran, Brad Stetson, John Moran and John Jolly — that was unlike any other I had been a part of and that has grown through the years. When I first went to the State Attorney’s Office, my plan was to stay a few years, try a bunch of cases and go out and start a law firm. But John and I became such great friends, and others became such great friends, and we enjoyed so much working on behalf of the public that we stayed. Quite frankly, none of us anticipated the change in 1991 when Ed Austin became mayor. I think John Delaney would tell you the same thing, and that is both of us, after our fathers, view him as one of our truly great mentors. And his [Austin’s] run for mayor, starting in the fall of 1990 and his election in spring of 1991, certainly changed a lot of lives. And I think that one of the best things that happened to the city was Ed Austin running, not only for what he did, but how it led to John becoming mayor later on. From the State Attorney’s Office, things led naturally to coming to the City in 1991. One of the things I learned was, when I was at the State Attorney’s Office, I thought what we did was critically important, and it was. I thought it was important to the city. We wore the white hats, we were the good guys, I thought it was a big stage. When I came to the City, I found out that the City of Jacksonville is a much bigger stage. The issues were much broader, diverse and challenging because it wasn’t black and white and they were very difficult. I also thought the opportunity to shape public policy and the future of the city was enormous in City government and the mayor’s office if you had the right people with the right heart and the right ethic. And you had that with Mayor Austin and you have that with Mayor Delaney. If Ed Austin’s election in 1991 wasn’t anticipated, then John Delaney’s election in 1995 was off the radar screen. We certainly didn’t anticipate that.
Q: You and Mayor Delaney’s careers seem mirror each other, they are so similar. Did you flip a coin back in 1995 to see who would run for mayor?
A: No, no, no, not at all. It’s interesting John and I do have a lot of similarities. Our parents are both from the Midwest [Michigan]. John is the oldest of three boys and I’m the oldest of three boys. We graduated from public high schools here in Jacksonville and then onto the University of Florida for undergraduate and law school and 10 years as a prosecutor and 11 years here with the City. It has been an amazing parallel track. What’s interesting, though, is if you watch us operate we compliment each other very well because our personalities are different. One person said, ‘You know, Rick, you and the mayor really compliment each other well. He’s patient, understanding, smart and charismatic and then there’s you.’ John is more cautious by nature than people may realize and I like to think I stretch John’s thinking because I very much like new ideas, innovation and change. John is thoughtful and reflective, so we provide a nice balance. I will try to get the mayor to think about things he might not think about otherwise. And, he will try to get me to slow down and to see the downside to some things. From a creation of public policy making standpoint, we’ve been a very good team. He has great political and public policy instincts. But, he’s so cautious that sometimes I think it’s helpful to have someone stretch and I think that’s one of the roles I play. The other role I play is, because we’ve been friends so long, you have to have someone tell you their honest opinion without fear of being thought foolish or without concern that they are wrong and without concern that there’s any agenda other than their ultimate judgment. One of the things I try to do with the mayor is give him my best judgment uncolored by self-interest or an agenda or without fear that he’s going to think I’m foolish because he already knows I’m foolish about some things. John is so popular that I don’t know if people truly appreciate how extraordinary he really is.
Q: You are an appointed official and the next mayor could come in and clean house. What will you do in a year if aren’t retained as general counsel?
A: I haven’t really excluded any possibility and I haven’t committed to anything. I hate to sound like our mayor when I say this, but I really don’t know. My wife asks me and I will tell you that my 12 -year-old daughter has started to ask, too.
Q: Do you put together the ‘club’ you mentioned earlier — yourself, Delaney, John Jolly, Audrey Moran — do the four of you end up working together again?
A: In the short term, the answer is no. I think in the short run, I think you will see, due to timing and other things, all of us heading in different direction. That’s the short run. Longer term, it’s going to depend on timing and some opportunities. I certainly believe that this mayor should be in the public sector in the long run. It would be a shame for the public and it would be a shame for him if that didn’t happen. That’s where his heart is, that’s where his passion is. Quite frankly, the public needs somebody of that caliber in public office. That’s where I see him, ultimately. As for me, there’s a lot of possibilities, but at this point I haven’t given them that much thought. Part of my concern has been is that I don’t want to take away from what we are still trying to accomplish during the seventh and eighth years of this administration and what we are trying to accomplish as a government. One of the good things about the mayoral campaign so far is that it has not proven to be a distraction, yet. The candidates have all been very respectful and mainly raising money and it’s really, really early. One of the concerns about getting started so early is that it would take away from the effectiveness of implementing and creating new policy. For me personally, I really don’t know.
Q: You’ve been in Jacksonville since consolidated government was instituted. Is this election going to be one the most entertaining? There are a lot of diverse personalities running and it’s hard to imagine everything will stay polite between now and next May.
A: I think it’s going to be very interesting. For one thing, we didn’t have an election in 1999 [Delaney was unopposed], so it has been eight years. The other thing is, elections by their nature are competitive and as much as people commit to doing it in a civil, proper way and everyone is saying that in good faith, you can’t always control your supporters and you can’t control your competitive spirit. By that, I mean I expect it to get testy and I expect it to get very competitive. That’s the nature of campaigns.
Q: What’s your role in the AT&T situation here in Jacksonville?
A: We have a specialized legal counsel, Matt Liebowitz out of South Florida, advising us and we are working with him. The short answer is, yes, we do have a role both as legal counsel and public policy issues as it relates to this. On AT&T, what we need to do as a community is sit down and ask what is it that we want. What do want for the future and how are we going to address the problems of the past? I’ve been working with the mayor, Matt Carlucci and Matt Liebowitz and we hope to have good-faith discussions in the future with AT&T on how to resolve this. We do have to resolve the problems of the past and we do have to ensure the public will be treated better in the future.
Q: Where do you stand with the Utility Contractors Association suit?
A: As you know, McGuire Woods is the firm handling that with David Wells and Chris Milton and we have a trial set for next May [in Federal court] and you’re going to see over the next several months the kinds of things you see in litigation which is document production, interrogatories, requests to produce and depositions. Motions will be filed later this year or early next year and we have a trial date next spring.
Q: At this time, does that suit require attention from you on a daily basis?
A: We have a couple of lawyers in our office working closely with McGuire Woods on the case in terms of document production and strategy. But, lead counsel on the case is McGuire Woods and so it is not time intensive for me personally. We have periodic updates.
Q: What do you do to get away from everything?
A: I have a 12- year-old, a six- year-old and a three-year-old and I think the only thing better than having three children would be having four. The three kids are the best. My 12-year-old just graduated from seventh grade, my six-year-old starts first grade in the Fall and my three-year-old is a miracle child. She was born at one pound, 11 ounces and she was premature by over 13 weeks and the fact that she’s alive is a miracle. So, I’m at work or I’m with the kids. That accounts for about 99.2 percent of my time. The .8 includes white water rafting with the mayor and five buddies and if I can get a hall pass, I like to slip out on the golf course.
Q: Who wins the U.S. Open this week?
A: If you have to pick one guy, you have to pick Tiger Woods. But, if it’s Tiger vs. the other 155 guys, I think you go with the field. I don’t expect him to win this week. The U.S. Open, to me, is by far the most difficult of the four majors.